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Post by mikey on Apr 8, 2011 10:11:54 GMT -5
They're still doing reasonably well in the demos that they actually care about (women 18-49 and women 18-34), so until those plummet, I don't think it's truly time for another "The Plan to Save Days!!!" cover at SOD.  That said, the idea of payoff is absolutely correct. One thing about Days that always worked for me is that you sorta knew what the endgame was -- John & Marlena would reunite, Bo & Hope would work it out, Jack & Jen would find their way back together. This is the first 'era' where that stuff feels uncertain, and it makes the show feel weird. I think they need to establish a tentpole couple besides Sami/Rafe (who I'm pretty sure we couldn't split up if we hacked them to bits and set them on fire). I was never fully onboard with Phillip/Melanie as that couple, mostly because I think she has a lot of growing to do and I wanted to see him with someone more mature, but there's YEARS of story in Nicole/Brady trying to make it work as a functional couple. You throw triangles and various tribulations at them, but you keep them ultimately fighting to be together, even when they don't know that's what they want. Sorry, EJ & Taylor aren't gonna work in that regard. Nicole has been positioned as the "good guy" in this story, so am I supposed to be rooting for... her marriage to a man who doesn't love her to work out? EJ to leave her to be with her boring, idiotic sister? There's no rooting value in the structure of this story, which is why it's such a dud. I only hope that there's something on the other side of this transition period that TPTB feel is truly worth it. I know that with Days and various other soaps, I've sat through these weird, murky periods and suddenly emerged in a story landscape that makes sense, and you realize that they were aiming for something all along and just did a sloppy job laying the foundation. Maybe that'll be the case here? [/eternal optimist] |
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Post by DancingDays on Apr 8, 2011 10:23:46 GMT -5
Wow. I had never thought of EJ/Sami/Rafe (ESR) as Stefano/Marlena/John (SMJ) part deux. But it totally makes sense. The biggest problem is how ESR is so inconsistent. As SMJ developed, we understood why Stefano hated John. We knew he'd wanted Marlena forever, and it made sense that he'd want to get between them. And say what you want about Santo/Colleen, I loved the idea that John was actually Stefano's half brother. Sibling rivalry at its finest. (Granted, I watched all of the Santo/Colleen stuff on youtube - by an EJami poster- so if I missed something, please fill me in.) I thought it was brilliant.
The problem with ESR is Rafe has NOTHING to do with EJ (as for as we know.......) so it doesn't really make sense for EJ to hate him, other than jealousy over Sami. And if we're to believe that EJ has gotten over Sami (which, I think he has) then why does he care about Rafe? I get that he's jealous over Johnny liking Rafe, but even that is a stretch. Plus, I think we're going to eventually discover that Johnny is Lucas's son anyway. But that's another thread.
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Post by tabbycat46 on Apr 8, 2011 10:24:21 GMT -5
Kazz, unfortunately, I don't think that bringing back John/Marlena and getting rid of people is going to solve the problem when the writing is clearly bad. The only solution is basically to get rid of DH & GT, bring in a new head writer who is capable of writing compelling storylines for the current cast. The solution is great writing and the ENTIRE cast banding together to turn things around. I believe that it is going to take alot of TEAMWORK to solve this issue. In other words, BALANCE of all the storylines is key. I'm also starting to wonder if the bad economy isn't contributing to the problem. Maybe Days/NBC can't afford to make the necessary changes needed to solve the problem.  Everyone is suffering, so maybe Days is as well. |
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Post by ghoulgirl on Apr 8, 2011 10:27:08 GMT -5
(Granted, I watched all of the Santo/Colleen stuff on youtube - by an EJami poster- so if I missed something, please fill me in.) I thought it was brilliant. I haven't watched any of that. Is it worth the watch? If so, I will totally look it up this weekend. |
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Post by DancingDays on Apr 8, 2011 10:29:31 GMT -5
(Granted, I watched all of the Santo/Colleen stuff on youtube - by an EJami poster- so if I missed something, please fill me in.) I thought it was brilliant. I haven't watched any of that. Is it worth the watch? If so, I will totally look it up this weekend. I liked it. It was a lot of hot EJ/Sami action, which was awesome. But it also helped explain the history between Stefano and the Bradys. It's worth a watch if you have time. Lots of hot EJ. Yumm! ;D |
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Post by ghoulgirl on Apr 8, 2011 10:42:19 GMT -5
You've convinced me. I have to watch it! LOL
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Post by mikey on Apr 8, 2011 10:59:18 GMT -5
The Santo/Colleen stuff probably works better in isolation on YouTube, honestly. I loved the idea of it, and I loved a lot of moments, but it sort of turned into a summer of our favorite characters (J&M, Bope, Doug & Julie, Anna, etc.) sitting in the pub slowly reading letters until, randomly, Shirley Jones turned out to be John's mom. But I thought the idea of planting Sami & EJ way back in the Brady/DiMera history was cool, and it really elevated the "next generation" into that story, which hadn't successfully been done til then.
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Post by Tom Horton on Apr 8, 2011 11:04:18 GMT -5
mikey, very good point about the uncertainity. IMO, soaps are like comfort food, familiar and soothing, something you can turn on after a long day and count on as a stress break, not the kind of show that irritates or confuses. Between the infuriating lack of justice, the inconsistency of character behavior and undeveloped/unfinished storylines, Days does feel very weird indeed. Personally, I don't think Sami/Rafe work as a tentpole couple but that's another topic entirely. I do agree however that Brady/Nicole would serve well in that capacity. I feel like I've been waiting for the light at the end of the tunnel on Days for almost 5 years now and have lost hope that the current regime can find its way out. That doesn't mean that I think Days is doomed though. Like you say, it has rebounded from bad periods before -- it even survived the Tom Langan years! @tabbycat, I tried to make it clear that I'm not advocating for a return of John/Marlena (or at least not without some greater purpose than oh the ratings are bad let's try this) and that like you, I agree the issues running deeper than simply changing up chracters/storylines. Perhaps I did not do a sufficient job explaining my points, but yes I agree that the problems and solutions start at the top.
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Post by Tom Horton on Apr 8, 2011 11:13:12 GMT -5
I hated the Santo/Colleen storyline for exactly the reasons that Mikey noted - vet characters reading "love letters" of two characters that no one knew and thinking that a young soon-to-be-nun being lied to by a much older, married man was "romantic". I also thought it was an extremely lame "explanation" of a 50+ year family feud. I never thought that Ali/James had good onscreen chemistry in any capacity but for those who do, then I agree that watching the scenes in isolation would be the way to go. What I did like about that storyline was that it ended  and that it ended with NuJohn in control of the Dimera fortune. NuJohn was fun (if they just hadn't tried the failed attempt to whitewash EJ with it, it would have been even better). |
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Post by tabbycat46 on Apr 8, 2011 11:57:32 GMT -5
Thanks Kazz, for clarifying your post. My main concern now, is that due to the bad economy, Ken Corday may or may not be able to do anything to solve the problem. I think the best thing to do is to get rid of GT and DH, hire new writers, work with the cast that they have and pray. I'm convinced that with the proper writing the current cast could sparkle. They just need to be given the material to work with.
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Post by DancingDays on Apr 8, 2011 11:58:00 GMT -5
The biggest reason I liked it was there seemed to be a lot of scenes of naked James. Always a plus. I also kinda liked Alison's Irish brogue. It was borderline comical, but most of the time I bought it. Storyline-wise, you're right Kazz -it was good because it was a contained storyline. There was a beginning and then an ENDING. But there were ramifications for other characters too. It helped tie together the last generation with the new, like Mikey said. A passing of the torch, if you will. I know we can't have Marlena and John forever. But I don't think they need to dump ALL of the last generation in order to showcase the next.
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Post by slyn11 on Apr 11, 2011 20:03:35 GMT -5
That said, the idea of payoff is absolutely correct. One thing about Days that always worked for me is that you sorta knew what the endgame was -- John & Marlena would reunite, Bo & Hope would work it out, Jack & Jen would find their way back together. This is the first 'era' where that stuff feels uncertain, and it makes the show feel weird. [/eternal optimist] This is exactly why I never was fond of Days in the past. I hated always knowing who was going to end up together. There was no point in rooting for another side. I don't mind certain characters always in revolving storylines together, but I like the idea that maybe these couples can break. Like I would have LOVED for Bo and Hope to divorce. I would have loved for Claire to stay Philip's child. I would love for EJ and Sami to have really had a shot. |
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Post by Tom Horton on Apr 11, 2011 20:26:57 GMT -5
^^ While there are always exceptions, the classic formulas on soaps were successful for so long for a reason. It isn't even unique to soaps. Most genres of movies/tv series have a predictable formula (even mysteries where the ending is expected to be unknown have familiar elements) - overall people like that and it sells. It is generally obvious for the beginning of any movie which couple is the rooting couple and/or who is the rooting character that will come out on top at the end ... and ending the movie any other way would very likely be a disaster at the box office. Point being that while I understand not everyone is a Bope, J&M, S&K, J&J, etc. fan, that is definitely the way I would go if I were in charge at Days because what sells to the masses is what leads to the best ratings.
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Post by fluffysmom on Apr 14, 2011 21:49:41 GMT -5
We need a fabulous love story like in the past... Bo and Hope, Kim and Shane, steve and Kayla, John and Marlena. They were always deeply in love and triumphed over numerous obstacles. I think the last few years couples keep getting married because they had some hot sex and thought hey why not?! Chloe and Lucas were the perfect example of that! I love them both but not together! If some of these couples need to date fine but not get married. The classic couples didn't jump into bed immediately or think they needed a wedding and a baby a few months after their first dates! There are very few if any couples to root for. I like Brady and Nicole but I am wondering if being a fan of them will be like being a Philip/chloe fan. You get screwed alot but rarely in a good way! TPTB don't help matters when they alienate so many fans at once... like fans of Philip/ Chloe, Melanie/Philip, Melanie/Nathan, Chloe/Daniel, Bo/Carly. I am not a fan of most of those couples but thats a lot of fans to anger in a short time.
We have some good actors but we need good writing and some romance.
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Post by addictedtodool on Apr 15, 2011 14:48:56 GMT -5
It's not necessarily the stories themselves OR the pairings, or even the triangles...or even that they rewrite history or change the characters (all of which are merely annoying by themselves, but together are like wearing a wool sweater that hasn't been washed, you might continue to wear it for the rest of the day, but can't wait to take it off.) The worst part of it is that it feels like I am on crack or something. Sometimes it all goes so quickly my head is spinning trying to take it in and then swhoosh! I'm coming down and everything is just soooooo slooooowwwww. We get to the reveal of the ONS and then all that payoff drama is gone in about a day.
And I get what Kazz is saying...there are formulas that work, and I am sure the triangle is one of them...one of those certainly hooked me back in the day. Most of us learned to enjoy John and Marlena when we were first big Roman fans. It would not have been so if John had raped Marlena as vengence for his family. He would have been a villain and clearly not rootable, Those roles are usually clearly defined on soaps. When the Colleen Santo story came out, they had an opportunity to redeem him, but they didn't. They continued to make him a bad guy trying to hide his bad boy ways, not reform because he had discovered true and everylasting love. Because Days refuses to allow EJ to become what he truly is and get the hell off the fence, they have tainted his entire soap existence and challenged us to get rid of years of ingrained TV and soap watching expectations to enjoy him. Even many of the die hard the EJ Sami fans cannot stomach the horrible things he has done. This has not been like Stefano wanting Marlena for himself. This has been years of EJ unable to get over himself.
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Everyone is suffering, so maybe Days is as well. 
and that it ended with NuJohn in control of the Dimera fortune. NuJohn was fun (if they just hadn't tried the failed attempt to whitewash EJ with it, it would have been even better). 
